The need for Eee? - appletalker forum [apple mac discussion and troubleshooting]

Gamoe

2008-05-15, 09:02 #1

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Subject: The need for Eee?

For a long time I've really wanted a little device that I can carry around with me for the primary purpose of writing. No, not video and entertainment, nor video editing and web browsing, but writing. Of course, being able to open a web browser, I suppose, is a plus, though I'm not even entirely sure of that. I just want a little digital notebook. Ideally, I would be able to write on it with some kind of pen or stylus, but if a keyboard is what I must use, then that is fine too, being a familiar and relatively reliable instrument as well.

I was just getting around to considering a Newton when old Steve ordered them killed. I fell in love with the eMate form factor. I really wanted one of the little translucent green buggers at the time, but they were too expensive and soon, there were none. If somebody offered me one today, I'd take it maybe only for the historical value, but it is no longer a practical, viable alternative, considering all the compatibility and age issues it faces these days.

Most recently, the XO laptop caught my attention and the mere possibilities of such a machine, at the originally promised price, to advance the noble endeavor of education stirred up quite some enthusiasm within me. As you'll recall, I even made a small website about it, and was even interviewed about it and mentioned in an online article. But, as time went by, I realized the OLPC project was headed by a "brilliant" and yet very foolish man. I too, was rather unhappy with Intel's behavior. Here was an organization trying on noble, humanitarian mission of education only to have Intel butt in because they saw dollar (or euro, or peso, etc.) signs.

While that certainly did not help, it was OLPC itself which planted its seeds of destruction, or at least, non-effectiveness. In the end though, OLPC and the XO did indeed have a widespread effect in practically single-handedly starting the movements towards small, inexpensive laptops and educational goals for such devices. I've since sighed and looked away. I wish OLPC the best of luck in their endeavor and it would be a pleasant surprise to see them rebound and serve many more children and adults. But, the XO is not really for me it seems, if only because of the limited availability, though I'm sure the technology and design philosophy set forth by OLPC will eventually make its way into similar products at some point.

I have continued to look for an appropriate portable device. You'll recall I wondered some time ago whether the iPod Touch was any good for writing. Some people seem to believe so, though I am still somewhat skeptical of this.

But, I've been keeping my eye on one of the mini-notebooks which appeared in response to the XO, the annoyingly named Eee PC. I was somewhat irritated with the whole thing at first, thinking of it as a type of attack on the XO (which in many ways, it most certainly was). But I have seen the product improve and it is, in actuality, quite different to the XO except for sharing a similar concern with size and an open-source Linux OS. Truth be told, it is an interesting product in that it combines small size (and admittedly, specs) with a low price, something Apple is unlikely to ever do if it can avoid it.

On the other hand, there may be some fantastic, wondrous new Apple device at WWDC on June ninth. Just in case, I'll wait till then. But what do you guys think. Wouldn't this be a perfect little device for writing and occasional web browsing on the go in the city? A nice little notebook to have on the nightstand in case any good ideas pop up perhaps? I use my MacBook for all these things, but I feel I should leave the MacBook be and carry out its other duties (maintenance scripts, distributed computing, encoding or ripping a DVD, etc.) instead. Maybe it is my (probably unreasonable) yearning to have another machine in addition to my "primary" Mac. Regardless, I will be keeping on eye on this class of machine as well as on Apple, as always.

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madra (Administrator) 2008-05-15, 22:31 #2

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this is exactly what i want from apple. in fact your post's given me a sense of déjá vú - i'm sure i posted a while ago, asking for exactly the same thing, but i cannae find the post in question.

what i really want is a true pocket digital notebook that i can write into and sketch into - and then be able to transfer that 'stuff' to my mac for further working on. i dinnae want anything else. no internet. no MP3 player. no phone. just a one-trick pony, priced reasonably enough that i dinnae have to worry about carrying it with me everywhere. and it should be rugged enough to take being thrown into my pocket, or the bottom of my rucksack, or used in the rain in the middle of a muddy field.

the fact that i want to be able to draw or sketch into my imaginary 'itablet' seems to require that it should include a stylus of some sort. i just cannae imagine being able to get sufficient precision, drawing with my finger on a touchscreen. but since 'steve' seems to have a pathological hatred of anything which even remotely harks back to the days of the newton, i'm not holding my breath.

still - an apple tablet would be an interesting step in the right direction. :crossed:

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Gamoe

2008-05-16, 05:41 #3

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It occurs to me, madra, that we don't want to be merely consumers. We want to be creators. Indeed, the lack of input options on the iPod, even on the Touch, is a big part of what's kept me from going for it. Jobs' disdain for the stylus, an ancient and revered writing apparatus, both an example and a facilitator of our mental development, seems backwards to me. (BTW, I am also having the writing déjá vú... I recall bashing Job's position on this in a similar fashion before).

As human beings we design and develop tools to aide our senses. It seems so contrary to me that a company which designs, markets and sells such sophisticated tools would decry the stylus for data entry, of all things. I suppose Jobs doesn't believe in using tableware to eat, pencils and pens to write with or needles to sow (just make big holes in 'em, I always say). While the option of using one's fingers for data entry is certainly a convenient one, the option to use a stylus is a necessity for more complex and precise data entry (such as drawing and handwriting recognition).

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Simon 2008-05-16, 07:47 #4

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In reply to post #2

Quote by madra:
what i really want is a true pocket digital notebook that i can write into and sketch into - and then be able to transfer that 'stuff' to my mac for further working on. i dinnae want anything else. no internet. no MP3 player. no phone. just a one-trick pony, priced reasonably enough that i dinnae have to worry about carrying it with me everywhere. and it should be rugged enough to take being thrown into my pocket, or the bottom of my rucksack, or used in the rain in the middle of a muddy field.

The way I know I know Apple this souped up iPhone tablet thing will just not be that: It will come with all the bells and whistles: 3G, GPS, 2 cameras, video chat, OS X for iPhone, and it will cost about as much as a refurb MB.

If you're looking for nothing more than a digital slate, Apple is probably not the company you want to buy from.

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Simon 2008-05-16, 07:49 #5

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Personally, I'm not at all excited about this idea of an iPhone tablet. If I want a Mac nano I can take everywhere and don't mind carrying with me I can buy an iPhone or iPod touch. If I want the whole deal I can get a MBA. I won't carry it with me all the time like the iPhone or iPod touch, but it has basically all I need on the road. And most importantly it doesn't have what I don't need on the road (I'm thinking optical here, not Ethernet).

But this iPod slate, where would that fit in? It would likely be too large to fit my pockets so I wouldn't have it with me all the time. OTOH since it would be an iPhone rather than a Mac it will lack inputs, all my Mac apps, etc. So in essence I don't see why I'd want such a device and where it would fit in. Of course YMMV.

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madra (Administrator) 2008-05-16, 09:48 #6

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Quote by Gamoe:
It occurs to me, madra, that we don't want to be merely consumers. We want to be creators...

y'know, i think you've made a really great point there.

apple initially built up its reputation amongst creative people. they were the company that made the platform that best allowed you to make art, music, graphic design and so on. they 'made stuff that let you make stuff'. of late however, apple seems to be more about slick interfaces and sexy hardware design. not that these are bad things - they're not. but i do get the feeling that they [apple] are starting to neglect the notion of giving the end-user the tools to let him/her create stuff for his/herself in favour of making gadgets that let the end user access content that apple's creative people have made [or made available] for you.

Quote by Simon:
...The way I know I know Apple this souped up iPhone tablet thing will just not be that: It will come with all the bells and whistles...

If you're looking for nothing more than a digital slate, Apple is probably not the company you want to buy from.

yes. you're right there. my post was more about wishful thinking than any real expectation that apple would be remotely likely to announce such a gadget. if and when the tablet does see the light of day, i'm sure it will be as you say - ridiculously priced, 'bells & whistles' all the way - and, knowing apple's genius for marketing, will sell like hotcakes nonetheless.

Quote by Simon:
...But this iPod slate, where would that fit in? It would likely be too large to fit my pockets so I wouldn't have it with me all the time...

i dunno. i s'pose it depends on the size of your pockets :grin:

i'm a bit of a 'pockets guy'. i hate carrying stuff around in bags, for fear i'll leave it down somewhere and lose it. so i do tend to wear jackets with lots of pockets and army trousers are great; i can [and regularly do] load up a pair of those with my wallet, leatherman, camera, phone, book [if i'm going somewhere i'm likely to be waiting around] and various other bits'n'bobs. so for me something about the size of a paperback book [or maybe a bit smaller] would be fine. not as conveniently sized as an iphone or ipod nano, but still eminently 'pocketable'.

actually, i've just had a concept:

i've been saying that what i really want is the convenience of a 'doodle pad' that i can carry around with me everywhere and jot down quick notes and scribble sketches into. but those already exist. i can buy a wee notebook and pencil anywhere. when i think about it, i'm looking at the problem from the wrong angle. what i *really* want is not something i can write and draw into [for me pencil to paper will always beat plastic to plastic as a medium for 'making marks'] what i'm after is a quick and easy way to get stuff out of my notebooks and into my comp, without the hassles of having to scan everything using a conventional scanner, which is a total PITA. anyone who's ever tried to scan pages out of a book will know what i mean; either the damned pages willnae lie flat, or you end up busting the spine of the book trying to make them do so.

so here's my new wannabe apple gadget. a small handheld scanner [yes - i know these already exist, but they're very crude] which is slim enough and small enough that i can use it to quickly and with minimum grief get stuff off inaccessible places like the pages of notebooks, beermats, the backs of envelopes, restaurant tableclothes and all those other clichéd places people scribble down ideas. and here's the clever bit - not only would this device be able to scan in my random musings and doodlings, it would also have a shit-hot handwriting recognition system that would learn to recognise my writing and [accurately!] turn my ungainly scrawl into proper digital text that. the device would then wirelessly connect to my mac and download my drawings and text for further manipulation.

i'll call it the 'icopy' [although i think that's probably already apple's codename for microsoft]

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Gamoe

2009-10-26, 08:54 #7

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After missing my MacBook Pro since Thursday, I find it a matter of pressing practicality to have a secondary notebook. I am getting along now by borrowing my dad's white MacBook, but there is only so much of that, of course. I need it for work and school. And I still have the desire for that small "writing device".

Even excepting my present situation, since I got my 15" MBP, I find it is not adequate to the places and situations in which I used my 13" MB for. The screen is bigger and heavier, and that means that using in bed or lying face up is rather and impractical affair. I like to tilt the screen forward. A MacBook's screen will stay put, a 15" or bigger MBP screen will merely fall down.

School-use is just as impractical. It's footprint takes up an enormous portion of the rinky-dinky desks the university has provided us for class-use. I've also found batter life is significantly shorter than on my old white MacBook, even with the brightness down, no unnecessary apps running and other batter-conserving measures. And of course, I am always a little worried my MBP will take an accidental dive off.

As such, I am very close to ordering an Asus Eee PC. Specifically I'm looking into the 1005HA.-- I think Asus still has a lead in the netbook segment. With the stated 10.5 hour battery life, I expect it to run at least as long as my old white MacBook did, and with its miniaturized dimensions its perfect for all those other situations I can't use the MBP in.

I have been waiting and waiting for new hardware to come out-- for Nvidia's ION platform to catch-on, for Apple to release the tablet, for more powerful or/and efficient netbook-worthy CPUs to be released. But Nvidia's legal fight with Intel has put a dampener on the whole ION thing. Besides, I realized that's not a priority for me in the situations I want a netbook for. Apple has not seen fit to release the tablet. And frankly, I'm starting to see that it's not going to be what I want, especially at Apple prices. It'll probably be more of a reading, than a writing device, and it'll certainly be more than $400, which is my budget for a netbook. And so far, the Intel Atom is king, with nothing really ground-breaking in the horizon.

Surely Mac OS X is my preference, but Linux will do just fine. Actually, it might be quite fun dealing with the third platform on a regular basis. Not sure if I should buy now or wait. It seems I've waited enough and nothing's going to change significant;y for the time being. Although perhaps I should wait for the holidays, or after the holidays? On the other hand, I have several papers due before the end of the semester I could break it in with. In any case, I definitely do feel the "the need for Eee", and I think these are all excellent reasons for netbooks in addition to others.

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Simon 2009-10-26, 09:12 #8

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Sounds quite reasonable to me. One thing though. You put a lot of emphasis on writing and using the device basically as a digital notepad. But don't most netbooks lack right there? Isn't the keyboard and the writing experience usually what's criticized most on netbooks?

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madra (Administrator) 2009-10-26, 10:48 #9

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AH! - the apple tablet. will it ever see the light of day.

as you lot will know, from my recent spate of reviews, i'm loving my new ipod touch as an almost 'pocket computer' and while i'd recommend it wholeheartedly as a great way to have a library of tunes, videos, books [and even the odd game], and also with internet access in a pocket sized device, i woulndae fancy having to write on it for anything more than a quick email or paragraph or two of text.

i was actually thinking the other night, while reading in bed on the old podule, that it's almost *too small*. i could easily have coped with an ipod an inch wider and an inch taller and two or three times as thick. [although maybe that's coz i carry a JCB toughphone, which looks like a housebrick, compared to my ipod touch!]

i really dinnae see the point of the constant quest to make technology ever-smaller. in fact it seems to be almost a mantra these days that every new apple product release has to be 'faster' and 'thinner' or 'lighter' than before. why? - it means you're spending half your development time, trying to fit the existing tech into a smaller box, rather than making the existing sized box more powerful. i'd love to see an apple tablet, which provided a 'proper' micro-computer experience, and i wouldnae be that bothered if it was bigger than the current iphones/ipods... or heavier... or not as thin.

all the press seems to suggest that the entire apple world is clamouring for an apple tablet and only steve jobs on the entire planet is opposed to it. let's just hope that, for once, he gives into persuasion and apple get on with it.

but meanwhile, back in the real world...

as regards the asus, my brother bought one for one of his kids last christmas and i got the chance to mess about with it for about half an hour, as they wanted me to sort out connecting it to their new wifi router. i thought it did feel a bit plascticcy and cheap, compared to a the apple hardware i'm used to. it was more like using a toy computer to me, than a miniature version of a real one. but at least my bro had the sense to buy the kid an asus running linux - and not a feckin' windoze one.

hmmm... it's a toughy. but i think, on balance, in your situation, i'd actually still go for an ipod touch - even tho' the asus is bigger, has more 'proper' computing capabilities and is slightly easier to type on. there's just something about the iphone/ipod touch which makes it 'unputdownable'. i didnae really get that 'gadget lust' when i tinkered with the asus. and, of course, after you get your MBP back, you'd still have the a use for the ipod touch, whereas the EeePC would probably get stuck on a shelf somewhere and forgotten about.

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Navegador 2009-10-26, 20:46 #10

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The Nokia Booklet does it for me. One of these and a data-only SIM and I'm all set.

Mind you, it's just an EeePC in a fancy aluminium suit.

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Gamoe

2009-10-28, 00:48 #11

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Navegador: That would be great. I just can't afford to pay a monthly data plan at the moment, and couldn't justify the cost anyway, being that I'm usually at home or school, both of which have Wi-Fi. Any more "connectiveness" would be pure compulsion at this point.

Simon, Madra: I've got to say that for me the options are not having a notebook, versus having a netbook. Anything smaller than a netbook becomes too small to type on (iPod Touch, etc.), anything bigger (15" MacBook Pro) becomes too big to carry around. And I think a ~ 12" screen is just about right for me. Bigger and it starts to become 13" MacBook-sized, smaller and it becomes a bit too crowded on the screen. Seen that way, it's clear the latter is a more desirable choice. Additionally, I've read that the keyboards on these models are rather good, and almost full-size. I don't think typing will be a problem.

And true the 10" Eee PCs have a toy-like quality, but I actually like that-- it seems to me like it says "the PC has arrived". Finally, they are powerful (relatively speaking, netbooks may be slow but they are still very powerful machines capable of doing complex calculations, word processing and any of the usual functions required by users for work, school, etc.), portable, have enough battery-life to actually be useful and are so cheap that they are like toys now, and most people can afford them. I can see the scenario you mentioned madra, where a parent gifts one of these netbooks to his child. This will be the first personal computing experience of many children-- no more clunky (but lovable, nonetheless) Apple //es!

Regardless, I've looked into it, and I think the 1101HA (sexy name, I know) is an even better netbook for my needs, being that I loathe small screens and low resolutions, though it is a little more expensive. But according to reviews it loses its "toyish" appearance for a more professional look.

I'm going to wait a bit, though. I've read Asus might be coming out with some new models or refreshes soon. Might wait till next year. Let's see how I get along for now.

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This post was edited on 2009-10-28, 00:51 by Gamoe.

i5m 2009-10-28, 07:25 #12

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Quote by Gamoe:
Regardless, I've looked into it, and I think the 1101HA (sexy name, I know) is an even better netbook for my needs, being that I loathe small screens and low resolutions, though it is a little more expensive. But according to reviews it loses its "toyish" appearance for a more professional look.

Looks nice to me. The only flaw I see in your plan is this: How are you going to avoid wanting to try and install OSX on it, which will doubtless take up hours of your spare time, and negate any productivity benefit from having it in the first place? :grin:

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madra (Administrator) 2009-10-28, 08:47 #13

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the only flaw i can see is that ASUS seem to be increasingly displaying evidence of corporate insanity these days:

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Simon 2009-10-28, 08:57 #14

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The exact same thing caught my attention... :simon:

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Navegador 2009-10-28, 10:03 #15

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Ubuntu Netbook Remix runs nicely on those machines. In fact, they're sold over here with UNR pre-installed. Windows (XP) is an optional extra, believe it or not.

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